The Unanswerable Doubt

Next question or next doubt: What constitutes seed? This one line is enough, I can finish, I can speak till Shivaratri. 😃 I can speak till Shivaratri, because this is the ultimate doubt, this is the ultimate doubt. She asked, Devi asked: What constitutes seed? All of you know you are Atman. Atman is your true nature. You are the ultimate energy; whether you believe it or not, accept it or not, realize it or not, you are God. All of you know that. You memorized it, because again and again I repeat. But you know one more thing: You suffer, you have body, you have mind. You suffer.

How and why, when the Atman becomes body-mind, Atman became body-mind. How, when, why the Atman became body-mind? How, when, come up with answers!

Participant: When I chose.

HDH: When I, when you choose. Why did you choose?

Participant: Memories, desires.

HDH: Why did memories and desires come? Because they say Atman itself is energy and enjoyment, bliss. Why did it, that get some other desire?

Participant: That is the doubt, Swamiji, how?

HDH: How, that is what I am asking you. How?

Participant: Because you are not experiencing it.

HDH: Atman is experiencing. How, you see, how you became this person?

Participant: Choice.

HDH: But why choi (..) what choice?

Participant: Because of your karma.

HDH: How the karma started?

Participant: Previous births.

HDH: How did the previous births started?

Participant: purva janma vasana

HDH: How the purva janma vasana started?

Participant: Desires.

HDH: How the desires started?

Participant: With Maya.

HDH: How the Maya started?

(Participants inaudible)

HDH: How the ignorance started?

Participant: Maybe in the past we were enlightened.

Participant: Why did life start then Swamiji

HDH: But you are enlightened already. You were enlightened.

Participant: It’s only a drama.

Participant: Swamiji, it goes back to when life started.

HDH: Why drama started?

Participant: He wanted it.

HDH: Who wanted?

Participant: God.

HDH: And you and Shiva is one and the same, then how?

Participant: Delusion

HDH: How the delusion started?

Participant: Ignorance

HDH: How the ignorance started?

Participant: Shiva is only playing with the energy.

HDH: Why is Shiva is playing?

Participant: He wanted to amuse himself.

HDH: He want to amuse himself. So, if you are Atman, you have all possible amusements. Why do you want some more amusements? Means you are bored. Then how can you say you are Atman? How can you say you are bliss? Then again the state which you are going to reach, you will have, you need some more amusement. Better carry some of your amusement things.

Participant: Goes back to: Why is there even physical life then?

HDH: That is what! Why? That's what I'm asking.

Participant: To understand the Atman.

HDH: Why should you understand, you are Atman? Why should you understand Atman?

Participant: To experience the Atman.

HDH: You were Atman earlier. Why should you experience?

Participant: Consciousness enters you.

HDH: Why consciousness enters into you? Consciousness is supposed to be all pervading, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent.

Participant: It goes back to why there is individual consciousness and superconsciousness. That is what, why there is individual consciousness and superconsciousness? Huh? Huh? Huh?

Participants inaudible

Participant: Energy needs action.

HDH: Energy needs action? New theory. Please don't create new philosophies. The next generation will start cursing you because they have to read one more philosophy. Hm?

Participant: I've forgotten

HDH: What you forgot?

Participant: Past

HDH: You scrambled there also. 😃

Participant: The experience of the body and mind.

HDH: How will you forget if you are Atman? How will you forget if you are Atman? So you are basically Atman, but now you have suffering of body and mind. How you became body-mind?

Participants inaudible

HDH: Then why did you have suffering of body-mind?

Participant: Body-mind controls the suffering.

HDH: Ok, why do you suffer, if you are supposed to be Atman?

Participants inaudible

HDH: All right, if you suffer, do you feel the suffering or not?

Participants inaudible

HDH: Do you feel it or not? Then how come you say: I am not suffering.

Participant: Right now I am not as I am, I am associated with the body-mind

HDH: Ahh that is what, how did you get associated?

Participants: We broke the link

HDH: How did you break the link? How did you break the link?

Participants inaudible

HDH: How the desires erupted?

Participants inaudible

HDH: First of all, if you are Atman, how will you have other choice, how will you be able to choose something other than Atman because in Atman only one thing exists that is atman.

Participant: This is just the superconscious play.

HDH: Superconscious play means what? Superconscious play with whom? Huh?

Participant: With itself.

HDH: Huh?

Participant: With itself.

HDH: How will you play with yourself?

Participant: You have the capacity - energy and consciousness is there, which creates so much of variety.

HDH: So you say energy and consciousness is two different things?

Participant: inaudible … they create when they are together.

HDH: How can they be together and not separate? Then togetherness means there must be two

Participant: Swami it's like two sides of the same coin Swami

HDH: But in coin there is two side, but in Atman there is no two side. It's only one, not even a side, one.

Participant: Weare saying it just to… for want of better word. Consciousness energy are there... existing... Just existing like that is not great fun, it creates itself...

HDH: So you need some fun.

Participant: What will it do just lying like that, Swami?

HDH: Oh, you think that Atman is just lying like that? 😃😃

Participant: Consciousness is built, consciousness is there. What I am saying is we are talking about right from the beginning, not talking about now.

HDH: No, no I’m talking about the big bang and black hole hmm.

Participant: Ok. Just to express itself isn't it, because it’s so...

HDH: It has to express means it is not fulfilled when it is there as it is. Am I right?

Participant: No Swami, it is so full, it has to express itself otherwise - bored.

HDH: When it is so full, where else it will express, where is the place for to express it?

Participant: Swamiji, do you have an answer? Why is universe created then?

HDH: That is what I am asking.

Participant: It has to express itself in itself Swami, different dimensions.

Participant: If there is a different dimension means, then it means the lower dimension and higher dimension. So there is a higher level and lower level or two different levels.

Participant: No Swami there is the atman…..

HDH: This the way you are showing na Swamiji demonstrates 😃 What size atman? 😃

Participant: It’s filled with potentiality, its not been expressed. In that same space it expresses itself in all variety and beauty, Swamiji.

HDH: Then how can, if it can express in some more variety and some more beauty, how can that be called as Atman?

Participants: We didn't say more. If it is not even expressing…

HDH: If it is expressing in a different variety and different beauty, how can that be called as Atman, because Atman is the ultimate fulfillment which has nothing more, nothing else to happen, an ultimate fulfilment, that’s what is Atman.

Participant: Swamiji, we haven't experienced Atman, we haven’t got knowledge on Atman …….. We’ve only got the knowledge now that I am the atma, I am not the body and mind. We haven't experienced that atman alone without the body mind …..

HDH: So you know now that you are suffering as body-mind and you are supposed to be Atman?

Participant: Yes

HDH: Hm?

Participant: Yes

So, how did you become body-mind?

Participants inaudible

HDH: If you are Atman, you are self understanding Atma deepo, swayam jyoti, swayam prakasha suddha chaitanya.

Participant: But I was ignorant of it till the age of 54. Only now I understood I am the Atma.

HDH: You see, it means, till the 54 you started thinking you are body-mind. Now you know, even before the age of 54 you’re only Atman. Hmm? How did that Atman become body-mind?

Participants inaudible

HDH: Listen here, listen here, mmh, mmh, mmh, mmh, mmh.

Participant: In science, energy is in a very higher state and dissipation of energy takes place by any means then the crystallisation takes place.

HDH: That energy has got some place where it can dissipate or crystallise, but atman has no gap.

Participant: It’s a full energy.

HDH: Full.

Participant: Full energy.

HDH: Then when where it will dissipate, or where it will crystallize?

Participants: or maybe falls down in potential level itself...inaudible

HDH: If it is a potential level and actual level, then there are two levels. There must be two Atman.

Participant: Same atman, Swamiji.

HDH: Same Atman, how can that have two levels? Then it is not Atman. Atman is supposed to be the same, eternal

Participant: But it has got intelligence also

HDH: No intelligence, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, everything should be permanent.

Participant What is calling it dissipated that is what is not …...?

HDH: That is what I am asking: What constitutes a seed?

Participant: The dynamics, the changes?

HDH: If there is a dynamic change, how can that be called as ultimate?

Participant: Swamiji, It’s like the chicken or egg question. If the chicken came first or the egg came first?

HDH: Egg only; from egg never chicken comes. Oh, chicken only comes from the egg (All laughing) 😃😃 From egg actually... No you see, listen here, actually from the chicken never egg comes, from hen only chicken, egg comes. (All laughing) 😃😃 Ha, I just missed the word. From hen only egg comes, chicken, no, from egg chicken comes, from chicken never egg comes. From hen only egg comes.

Participant: Swamiji, the question, ‘what constitutes seeds’ is ours. You have to only reply, not ask us …inaudible….

HDH: Alright, anybody else has got any answer?

Participant: Did Shiva …inaudible…swami?

HDH: No, but Shiva is already Devi, but I have to make you all Devi.

Participant: After becoming Devi she asked this question, then what do we know Swami? This is too much.

HDH: No, after she thought she was Devi, she asked this question, but you guys give, try to give answers, because you think you are Shiva. If you really felt that you are Devi, the moment I put this question, you would said, No, no, we don't know, please answer. You should be very clear that you don't know.

Participants: We don't know!

HDH: You tried.

Participant: No Swami, because you asked. We don’t know.

HDH: Even if I ask. You see, for example, for a small thing, now I ask you: In office, who are all sitting? You don’t know, no, no, no, you don’t know but with …. No, no, going and finding out is different, you should sit here and answer.

Participant: I don't know

HDH: That is what you would have told. Actually, I just wanted you to understand, this is the ultimate question, which cannot be answered. This is the doubt, which cannot be answered. Only experience can be given as a reply.