“What is spiritual debate?”

What is spiritual debate? In the Vedic tradition, the spiritual debate was one, one of the greatest way the truth was conveyed. Please understand, spiritual debate is one of the unique thing of Vedic tradition. I wanted to explain spiritual debate from various angle. One, this is the way the master teaches the truth to the initial level disciples. Second, this is the way the disciples learn among themself. Third, this is the way the opposite ideology persons were made to understand the truth. Fourth, this is the only way the religious terrisom was avoided in Vedic tradition.

We never won over with the sword. We never rage war with the sword. It was all with a clear, friendly, convincing arguments. The non violence strength of the Vedic tradition is built on spiritual debate. You will not find stories like; this monster took a sword and ride down the horse, went to the millions of people and killed the opposite ring or religious leader and converted the whole country to his religion. No.

He goes with a palm leaf and with the deep peace, few shaivai disciples, sit with the opposite religious leader, goes on and on and on for days. And I want you to know how one of the important spiritual debate happened in the Vedic tradition, which rewrote the history of Vedic tradition, between Shankara and Mandana Mishra. That was the turning point of the Vedic tradition. Because Vedic tradition was slowly getting lost in rituals, just the outer, physical doing. Slowly the attention is getting diverted towards that direction, then the inner enlightenment sign. So this debate was the greatest turning point happen to the Vedic tradition.

The rules of the debate is both of them will have lotus garlands and Mandan Mishra’s wife is a judge. Whose garland withers away first is the looser. You may think, “How can that be a decision point?'' You need to understand, whose body becomes heat during the argument, does not have the rational strength, just agitation is coming up. As I said in the morning, person who is agitated is looser.

Person who is agitated is doing all foolish things. All foolish things. And they already doing, get in to more and more trouble.They are putting themselves into more and more trouble. When you are agitated, see, spiritual strength mean how much the Shastra pramana and Apta pramana has become Atma pramana. Shastra pramana means truths of the spiritual ---. Apta pramana means the truths as expressed by the master. Atma Pramana means truth become experience of you. The Shastra pramana, how many expressed as Apta praman should become Atma pramana.

So, if your Apta pramana is stronger, your logic will ride it on the cool, lubricated, compassionate nerves system, does not need to get agitated, does not need to become hot, so the garland can wither away. So no worry. You can play the cool game. So, Mandan Mishra was given one garland, Shankara was given one garland, debate starts. Three and half days it goes, three and half days. Fourth day, amazing, three days two complete opposite site ideological person were able to sit and have a beautiful dialog, debate without getting heated. That's the greatness of Vedic tradition. That's the greatness of Vedic tradition.

It’s like a, more like a, Will I lead you to the deeper space or Will you lead me to deeper space, that's all, nothing else. So both of them decide, if you lead me deeper space then I, where I am, I will become your disciple. If I lead you to deeper space then where you are, then you become my disciple. Let us enter into the deeper truths. “Sahana vavatu, Sahno Bhunaktu,” means let both of us grow together. Let both of us educate ourselves together. Let both of us have friendliness, till we complete this process.

Even the Brahma Sutra, first Sutra starts with “Athato brahma jijnasa” - Let us explore the existence, the Brahman. Very beautifully. The Apta pramana, Shastra pramana which have become Apta pramana and how much it can become Atma pramana. Here, both of them are leading each other into the deeper and deeper and deeper spaces. Understanding, when you have no more space to lead the other person in to understanding, you are agitated. You will, now you start using the perverted logic, the heat. Garland wither away.

After three and half days evening, first time sweating was seen on Mandan Mishra’s body, the heat started coming up means, now all his other energy chakras are tired, Swadhisthana is emitting the heat. Now it has become survival. It is no more understanding. It is no more spiritual. Now he is agitated. He knows, he doesn’t have anymore. He can’t lead the other person into the deeper spaces, deeper than where it is. So naturally the irrational logic, perverted logic gets activated and he tries to use different words, which is not his experience. So those words, which has not become part of him creates heat and garland slowly starts withering away. Saraswati, Ube Bharati, says: “Stop now. You lost the game.”

Understand how beautiful the atmosphere would have been. Two great religious leaders. Understand, Mandan Mishra is not an ordinary guy. He is the top religious leader in Karmakanda. In those days Hinduism is not like united, as it is now. This one has the huge branch. Religouslisam is conquaring. Trying to conquer the science part of religion. So it's a fight between socio political rules and research and development, science. The spiritual science and socio political rules. Huge fight, but happening without even a flower garland getting interrupt.

Can you understand such big decisions are made in such a loving atmosphere. It’s almost like life and death for few million people. It is getting made in a space, where the garland, the lotus flower is not getting withered, withered away. No sword, no blood. Not even using the hand to beat. Just simple intelligence. And the Mandan Mishra, not only he realizes, he surrenders completely. He surrenders completely and says: “Here I am, your disciple. I understand. You can lead me one step deeper than what I am.”

See, Manden Mishra is not an ordinary religion, highly integrated spiritual practitioner, religious practitioner, who has millions of disciples. Amazing strength, intelligence, integrity, but when he says: “Yes, this guy can lead me one step deeper than where I am. He can take me one step above than where I’m. It is time, let me surrender.” Keeping the seeking alive. Understand, keeping the seeking alive, not getting frozen with the idea, is the truth, basic truth, on which the debate should happen. Spiritual debates should happen, keeping the seeking alive, not getting frozen in our own ideas.

Person who constantly have the spiritual debate with his own life, is living enlightened. With your own life constantly have a spiritual debate. Am I standing with the decisions I took? Am I standing with a strict seeking I took up? Am I getting frozen? Am I ready to have the debate? Am I ready to have debate with my life, which is ready to lead me next step? Am I keeping my seeking open? Am I keeping my surrender alive or am I slowly, see the Ganges, some dirt will slowly getting to the bank and get settled, means stop moving, stop flowing, stop living.

Spiritual debate is something which makes your seeking alive. Which makes your surrender alive. Which makes the whole thing alive. Keeps the enlightenment Ganges flowing in your system intensely. Remember, when you do the debate, the garland on your neck should not get heated. Maybe you can have thermometer. Because you guys are not going to sit three and half days. Garland may wither away. So you should have the thermometer or pulse monitor. Pulse monitor, that's the right thing. Your pulse should be balanced.

It should be completely based on your Atma pramana. The Apta pramana which has become Atma pramana. -- Shastra pramana can never directly become Atma pramana, that's the first thing. Shastra pramana is only to inspire you. Apta pramana only gives experience. And how much the Apta pramana become Atma pramana. So, when it becomes, when it is purely from Atma pramana, there is no loser. If you lose, naturelly, the person who wins is going to lead you to much deeper experience. So you are the winner. If you are a winner, the person who loss, you are going to lead that person to deeper and deeper spiritual experience. Again you are a winner.

Spiritual debate is a space, where it is win win situation, there is no loser. In Bharatn tradition spiritual debate, was some of the backbone, as I said in four level. Master to transmit the truths the new disciples. Master to transfer the truths the different ideological religious leaders. Disciples to transmit the truth to other disciples. And one leader to transmit the truth to other leader. In four ways it has been used and this avoided all religious terorism in Vedic tradition.

The Vedic tradition, extraordinary strength is spiritual debate. And there is beautiful sanskrit verse which state; When you listen from the master, you learn one fourth. When you have a debate among yourself you will learn one fourth. When you do the Smarana you learn the third quarter. When you start teaching, you learn the fourth quarter. When you listen from the master ---- when you do debate among yourself second person. When you do the Smarana, remembrance, means internal question - answer, a kind internal debate. The third, --- When you start teaching, the fourth -- . That is the way the truths are learned.

So, you guys have heard, heard, heard. Now I lead you guys to the second year person. We will have spiritual debate. This is the truth of spiritual debates in Bharatn tradition. I-- The second subject is history of spiritual debate, I covered this subject also. As I see in all traditions, which out of Vedic tradition, the debate is part of life. I can see very clearly how Mandana Mishra and Shankara would have the debate. And how Shankara had debate with many other Budhist and conquered. And how many Budhis like Narayana had debate with Shankara and conquered it. You may think that what is truth. Suddenly when Shankara represents Adwaita, When Nara Arjuna represents Shoonyata wins, that which is reality. Which is truth. Understand, the person who has experienced his reality. Not the ideas. Shankara was able to read Buddhism, one step deeper in Buddhism than where they are, so he won. Nara Arjuna is able to read Shankara one step deeper into Advaita then where they are. So he wins. So truth is one, who is able to lead you one step deeper, wins. So, spiritual debate is more like a place, where the person who can lead you one step further than where you are, is identified and the help is taken.

Sada Shiv Sama rambha, Shankara Acharya Madhyamam, Asmad Acharya Bharyantam, Vandae Guru Paramparam