“Participant: Psychological restlessness was ...”

Participant: Psychological restlessness was ...

Swamiji: See, you are trained you should lie down and sleep. That training is getting broken. That is where the problem starts.

Participant: Swamiji, for about five minutes I experienced my whole body as a black thick ... (not clear)

Swamiji: Wonderful, means it is a breakthrough. Fearful? Peaceful?

Participant: Peaceful, conscious

Participant: Swamiji, it was very interesting for me. There were three different phases of it. First one I started doing it and it was going very well. Because I was thinking that I started inhaling and exhaling and then I started of course, feeling the silence in the darkness and I started connecting to it saying, 'I am not the body. I am part of this darkness and then I was seeing myself and everything was going on its own and nothing was happening. Perfect. I thought I can pass the whole night.

Swamiji: Pure darkness into darkness.

Participant: But then interesting thing happened is I started feeling little lower back pain and I started getting creative. I said 'Oh, we just learnt kundalini. Let me just try it.' So, that was phase 2. I tried it, I was successful, I got the kundalini awakened and all that stuff was going on. So I was enjoying. Now I was trying to do 2 things and that’s where I messed up big time. So, not able to carry on

Swamiji: No messing up techniques; no messing up and mixing up techniques anymore. Hmmm...

Participant: So, then after that it was almost got to restlessness, I had to get up, go to the restroom, came back, started doing it, I felt very tired and then I started doing "Om Hreem Nithyanandaya Namaha". I must have said only three times and then I came back to the first state and then I could continue the whole night without any issue.

Swamiji: OK, all right. But in future no more mixing up techniques; because your mind is restless. It wants to thrive on different-different things. Hmm...

Participant: question not audible

Swamiji: That is ok. Just don't have irritation. Accept it, that's all. Accept it. There is only one place where there is no sound - burial ground.

Participant: At the beginning that's what happened to me. I was thinking darkness, (not audible) ... Is it because we just did the technique?

Swamiji: No, no, no, no, no, no. If you concentrate on darkness and your head starts swelling, nothing wrong. But you should not divert your attention to anything else. Just the technique, that's all; it has its own sanctity. Technique has its sanctity. Process is sacred. So no alteration, change, adulteration, or mixing, messing, nothing.

Participant: Swamiji, for me it was very difficult to visualize the darkness after seeing the Kalpataru darshan, seeing you all time here. So, it was so bright, it was… I really struggled to get into the darkness.

Swamiji: Ok

Participant: Swamiji, why is pain more intense?

Swamiji: Body is getting trained, that's all Ma. There is nothing else.

Swamiji: Ok, we will start the deeksha - initiation process; initiation into unclutching. Please understand, now we are going to work on the cosmic layer, the sixth layer. I want you to understand few Truths - Whenever you feel bliss, those few moments mind is absent. When mind is absent, you will have bliss. That's all. You need to be aware, but mind needs to be absent. When noise comes to you, just think 'why should it irritate me? This is the way it is there. Ok, Leave it. That's all. The resistance creates problem, not the noise itself. It’s the resistance. It's your idea - everything should be silent. That creates the problem.

You go through 2 levels of Consciousness – with awareness and without awareness. For example: now you have awareness, at least most of you. In the deep sleep, you don't have the awareness YOU - that you exist. The deep sleep you don't have. Now you have. With the “I” Consciousness - now, without “I” Consciousness - in the deep sleep.

Same way, you go through two mental levels or mental phases, one with thoughts, another one without thoughts. Am I right? Now you have thoughts. The deep sleep you will not have thoughts. So, when these 2 states of mind and 2 states of Consciousness crisscross each other, you go through 4 states.

I will explain.

With “I” consciousness and with thoughts - this is the wakeful state, almost most of you. This is the wakeful state - thinking. All of you are able to understand? With “I” consciousness, with thoughts, both are present. I can say both are equal frequency. The frequency of you - frequency of thoughts are same. That is why you will be able to control thoughts. Now if you want you can change your thoughts. Understand… the both are equal frequency.

In the dream state, the "I" will not be there. Thoughts only will be there. That is why you can't control your thoughts. The dream can you control your thought? No; because the frequency of thoughts is more than the frequency of "I". Please understand the frequency of the "I" is low, frequency of thoughts is more. So, there is no individual "I". That is why in the dream, one day you dream as if you are a student, other day you dream as if you are married, you can see in your dream you will be dreaming you are running for your exam with your wife!! And the child will be following you. All kinds of that "I" is completely messed, mixed up because “I” doesn't exist in the dream. Only thoughts are moving, hitting each other. It’s an intense Calcutta traffic jam. Any of you lived in Calcutta? If you can drive in Calcutta, you can drive anywhere in the world.

I have seen so many countries and so many cities I have seen. Nothing like Calcutta, bahbah! If you want to experience the hell, go to the streets of Calcutta and especially Howrah; Howrah, Telghat, that area, God!! Just like Calcutta's traffic, thoughts are moving on its own. Nobody will stop for any signal. If you stop for signal you are a fool. And people will walk on the bonnets. No, really, on the bonnets, car bonnets; on the car-bonnets, yes, on the cars people will be walking. You can see directly. No, I am not talking about stopped cars. I am talking about moving cars. No, Calcutta people know the circus, magic, everything. No, really, Calcutta pedestrians…. they should know… its a basic requirement - circus and magic ☺, these are all basic requirement to be a pedestrian in Calcutta. ☺ I lived there. That's why I am telling you. No, they will be walking on the moving cars. I don’t know how you will understand. But if you want try to go and live there at least for a week. And early morning you should watch from your hotel room. Don't come out. Watch from your hotel room. Book any hotel in Howrah area - Howrah area and look through your window. You will see what I am talking.

No, just like your dream; thoughts are moving on its own, there is no "I", there is no traffic police. There is no traffic police, there is no control, first of all there is no road… there is no road. Why ☺ There is no road, nothing, except vehicles nothing will be there. Except thoughts nothing will be there. Without "I" consciousness - with thoughts is dreaming state.

And neither “I” consciousness nor thoughts, without “I” consciousness, understand, without “I” consciousness and without thoughts, this is called deep sleep, Sushupti, deep sleep - which you experience in the night - deep sleep. No, not last night. Yes. Deep sleep.

Understand, this is the fourth state which we never experience in our life. Rarely when you had a touch from the spiritual Master, when you have the touch in energy darshan, that kind of moments you experience this where the Consciousness, awareness, "I exist" will be there but thoughts will not be there… thoughts will not be there. This is the state we call "atmajnana", Enlightenment, Buddha, Nirvana, or God Consciousness, having darshan of Lord, whatever you want to name, this is the state, Turiya, Turiyatita, Turiyatitatita, any name you can give, Brahmajnana, each religion gives its own name. I call it Nithyananda state, our own brand. No, each one has their own brand, but the state is one and the same. Please.

Turiya - Sushupti. Sushupti means deep sleep. See, this word only I am translating here in English. You want to know about this word? This Turiya is the goal of life. Understand, the goal of human life is to live in Turiya, live in this blissful state. If you are able to move your body being in this state, you are living Enlightenment. That’s the definition. You are a jeevan mukta, you are living Enlightenment. Please understand, whenever you experience bliss you get a glimpse of this state, glimpse of this state. A method or a process to be in this state continuously is what I call unclutching. Now, I will explain the technique of unclutching.

Your bio-memory with which you made your body is trained for these 3 states. It is not trained to be in this state. So, naturally till it gets comfortable with this state, you again and again fall into these states. That is why that initiation. Initiation means - energy darshan… makes your body feel comfortable with this state. See, this state can be given to you by process. You may ask, “then why initiation, directly touching, physically touching?” That is to transmit the bio-memory of this body into that body so that your body will start feeling comfortable with this state. You see the period you make your body feel comfortable with this state is what is living Enlightenment. Once it is completely comfortable, what you live, or how you exist is called videha mukti - you are just beyond body. The period of making you comfortable with this experience is what I call living Enlightenment. Sometime it comes and very rarely it goes, and you can bring it back, this drama will be happening. Especially the modern day men Ma, they are trained, their body is not trained to be settled, connect with this.

Participant: Not audible Swamiji: No, no, no. emptiness is…. Fullness.

Participant: Swamiji, you mentioned about the Turiya state that if you can be in the state and move your body you are living Enlightenment. Is the significance of moving the body just a distinguish between that state and Videha mukti state?

Swamiji: I can say it’s a very subtle difference. Understand, moving the body in the Enlightenment, in that Turiya state and not losing the Turiya state. Not losing the Turiya state is a Videha mukti. You see, it’s a very subtle difference. Let me give you this – bliss state and your body being soaked into that bliss state gets ready - I can call that state as living Enlightenment - living, radiating it. But suddenly you will see an explosion, a kind of an explosion where you will not even feel your body is being soaked into that bliss. That is a different kind of an experience. But you don't wait for that experience. Start living it. Start living it. That may, may not happen. Usually, especially the bodies which are prepared with a normal way of life, I can say all your bodies, that explosion may happen when you leave the body. You understand. So Videha mukti can happen when you leave the body. Only for the incarnations the Videha mukti happens even while they live. Even if they have deha, they live as if they don't have deha. For a normal human being, jivan mukti is more than enough. You are liberated. Jivan mukti is more than enough. Just soak, be live in that, just radiate that, that's enough.

Participant: So, there's not some lesser state, Turiya but the body is still ..

Swamiji: No, no, no, there is nothing like lesser or higher. Experience is one and the same, relax. It’s a technical difference. It’s a technical difference. See; do not compare your Enlightenment expression with Ramana Maharshi’s. I don' compare my expression with Ramana Maharshi or Ramana Maharshi's with Ramakrishna, and Ramakrishna's with Buddha, and Buddha's and mine, you understand. Experience will be same, but the expression, don't compare. So, whether you are a jivan mukta or Videha mukta, experience is same, live with that. That's all, that's enough. And there are something, you don't even…. I can say that you don't have to even compare with others experiences. It differs from person to person.

I can say the pure definition of Enlightenment is breakthrough from the old mental setup you had. This is the expression, this is the basic definition. Breakthrough means you will not be thinking in the same way, you will not be reacting in the same way, you will not be responding in the same way, you will not have those continuous inner chattering in the same way. So, just this basic definition is enough. After that it differs from person to person….each person. You don't have to compare about who has what and this, that things, levels and all those things. These are too technical. It's like a difference between savikalpa samadhi and nirvikalpa samadhi. Nirvikalpa samadhi is Enlightenment. Living Enlightenment means I am saying about Nirvikalpa samadhi only. But usually your bodies are not prepared to continuously be active in that. Ramakrishna says that, the sa re ga ma pa da nisa, you can’t be in the uchchaswara continuously, so you rest, but you don't come down completely. You understand, you just play the game. Body gets tuned, you rest, relax, but you don't fall into suffering; you will not have that same mental setup, old mental setup. But you just relax and start living it, like a floating kind of a thing. I can say that floating thing is living Enlightenment, not savikalpa samadhi. In the living Enlightenment, you see if that floating thing happens, if you connect with some mantra or the just form of God or something.

See, for example if you connect with the Master’s form, it doesn't lead to savikalpa, it leads to nirvikalpa… because I am there. Anything connection with Me, I am in nirvikalpa, so you will fall into nirvikalpa. When you connect with a Deity, you have a concept about Deity, so directly the Deity will not come out and break your concept about the Deity. That's why when Ramakrishna was meditating on Kali, he has to cut the form of the Kali. It becomes a basic necessity because he is not actually relating with Kali. He has a concept about Kali. Through that concept only you relate. With Me if you have a concept about Me, I will break it. I will break that frame. So, that is one advantage when you work with a Master than with a Deity. When you work with a Deity, there are some advantages. Your ego will not be hurt, so you can easily feel connected. Lot of advantages are there in the initial level, but the last technical point you need to go through some difficulties. Ramakrishna has suffered to come out of that Kali, Kali form, Kali form. But with Me you won’t have that problem. I will easily take it out; because I am directly responding. Continuous empty state can be Turiya state, can lead to Turiya state.

Participant: not audible

Swamiji: See, what you mean by the word "emptiness" I should know. Emptiness means do you mean 'I exist, and thoughts doesn't exist”?

Participant: not audible

Swamiji: No, then it’s not Turiya.

Participant: not audible

Swamiji: Yes, if it is completely Masters thought. Then its Turiya.

Participant: After we become jivan mukti, we will have continuous explosion happening?

Swamiji: Continuous experience, different, different, different. It will not be the same mind.

Participant: Swami, just like this, I was sitting wide awake.

Swamiji: One important thing Ma, one more I think I want to tell you. Now whatever word I utter, it will not be whatever meaning you give; that will not be same after you have some experience. After you have breakthrough…hmmm, the big problem is, now whatever I say you will imagine something like a big bang damaal, damaal, damaal, like a blast will be happening. ☺ But when you start living, it will not be like a blast, it will be totally different. It can be even 10 times more than a blast. The idea will be completely different. All you need to do is live that Truth. That's all. Live that Truth, live that satya… live that mindless state or live that unclutched state. Now, I will explain more detailed way about unclutching. Live that unclutched state. So, even sometime a simple touch or a leaf of a tree falling on you, will create a big shaking in you. Even that can create a big… anything can do anything in you. You will be just available. That's all. Continuous explosions; sometimes it will be deep peace. The problem is the Enlightenment does not happen to everybody in the same way. It depends on your mental setup. But only one thing I can tell you, these are the few basic definitions. You will not be thinking and responding, reacting, living in the same way. And there won’t be suffering. Anything comes up automatically you will stand up. These are the basic definitions, these are the basic definitions..

Participant: Some years back, not here, I was fully aware, fully conscious and suddenly everything dissolved. I was in total blackness. I was shocked but what my experience

Swamiji: Did you have idea you existed?

Participant: That was my experience. Suddenly ..

Swamiji: It's a opening. No doubt. Sometime these kind of opening happens for no reason, as accident. For Mohammad …Rabi…., it happened as accident only. That is why the whole religion was an accident. As an accident it happens.

Participant: I didn't know how to express that. So what came to me was I jumped to myself.

Swamiji: Now learn the science. You will be able to retain that state again and again. Relax into that state.

Participant: What state is that?

Swamiji: That state in Turiya only. You had the glimpse of Turiya. But your body was not matured, ready enough. That's why you lost it.

Participant: question not audible.

Swamiji: Yes, You see, when the thoughts are not there, the "I" becomes pure "I". It's not a small “i” anymore. See, along with thoughts it's a small "i". When the thoughts are not there, it’s a capital "I", the cosmic "I". You understand the "I" is totally different, “I" is totally different.

Participant: Swamiji, 2 things - one you are saying retaining Turiya state while moving is what I experienced is I can be very blissful and unclutched going about. But as soon as I start to move or eat, the mind jumps in. That’s what you are talking about - being able to live and without any of that jumping animal.

Swamiji: Yes….Without any of that

Participant: Ok, Thank you. That’s number one. And number two also some years back I had a similar experience. You said that I accidentally fell into the causal body which didn't happen last night. But everything disappeared, I existed, but I knew that everything existed in me, and it was very peaceful, it was beautiful.

Swamiji: It’s again a breakthrough of causal body, experience of causal body.

Participant: But causal body is not Turiya.

Swamiji: No, it’s same. You can say it’s the same.

Participant: Because there is the positive “I” awareness without the thought.

Swamiji: Right. See, if you experience any one body purely you are in Turiya; because without engram it’s a direct spiritual "I".

Participant: It felt like that.

Swamiji: With engram only its seven layer, without engram it is only one layer.

Participant: I mentally get caught in my, I think if I really understood Enlightenment, I would be enlightened. It’s just all these other ideas or..

(27: 39)

Swamiji: See, we have lot of folk ideas about Enlightenment. I will clear that tomorrow; tomorrow clearing of wrong ideas - granthibedana, vijnanamaya kosha bedana. That is the, we will do that tomorrow. Lot of folk ideas we carry. Let's remove that. Because of your folk ideas only you carry doubt about me. Somebody asked me yesterday that I am not able to doubt you. Who, your name? Rajan. You have lot of, you carry lot of folk ideas about Enlightenment - enlightened person means…. you have lot of folk ideas - He will not walk on the Earth and so many things. See, walking on water and walking on water any magician can do. Walking on the Earth only an enlightened person can do. See, I don’t say enlightened person doesn't walk on the Earth, He walks in an unclutched way. The Earth feels blessed. We will remove all your folk ideas. Then you will have lot more clarity and understanding.

Another one big problem you know, when you see an extraordinary things in me, it’s a wonderful inspiration to start your journey, but later on in the end that itself becomes kind of an obstruction, obstacle. You think you should have a long hair like me, whatever I am doing you should have, only then you feel you are enlightened. Then problem starts. See, after my Enlightenment I started going around and teaching. It does not mean you also tomorrow onwards remove everything and put kavi and you will start going around and teaching. NO!! You will be enlightened housewife, you will be an enlightened doctor, you will be enlightened citizen, you will be an enlightened lawyer, you will be an enlightened engineer; like how Ramana Maharshi gave Enlightenment to deer, dog, cow; he broke the rule, he broke the law that except human beings nobody can get enlightened. Just like how Ramana Maharshi broke the law, I will break the law ☺

Participant: Swamiji, I would like to ask you - few years back I had this pure experience of “I” and after that, soon after that for the first time in my life a completely different me related to people. Like I could feel it, like, it was this breakthrough in mental setup; I exactly felt that for some time and then again kind of …

Swamiji: Now I am trying to give you not accidental breakthrough, scientific breakthrough so that you can start staying in that continuously. You understand.

Participant: Then after that I went through depression because I really wanted to make

Swamiji: You want that, you don't know the science. That's a big problem. You went into depression. People usually go into drugs. That's the big problem. See, after you have that breakthrough you have three road. One is drug, another one is suicide, or meditation - knowing the science of that accident.

Participant: But then I was, somehow then the being was telling me, all I need to do I need to find meditation and then I found you

Swamiji: You are on the right track. You are on the right track. This is the way the seeking starts. How much atheists are talking about disrespecting seekers, seeking, Gurus, how much!! But still seeking has not disappeared in the world. Because it is a innate experience. That is why I tell them - Our field, never we will become jobless. Everybody at some point or other in the life will have that opening. If you have lived all the basic needs and still you are alive, you have to have the opening. Otherwise you will be living dead, you will be living in depression.

Participant: not audible

Swamiji: That is nothing wrong. That is what I am saying. You become a strong energy center. You influence them. You understand? That is why I am saying, if you have to raise the Consciousness of the world, we need immediately enlightened beings; the urgent need. You start becoming such a strong person and let YOU influence them instead of getting influenced by them. That's the only thing. STRENGTH. See, just yesterday you know, just by a word somebody can shake your whole Being and put you in a different space. Was there anything else? Just one word - it is your experience now. Why don't you stand? That's all. Why don't you stand? Just by one word and you are in a different plane, different space. You can tell them 'I have seen, I have seen the Truth by myself. I have experienced. If you want to experience come, otherwise get out.' That's why the Guru Gita says if somebody is abusing or disrespecting your Master, either cut his tongue or leave that place. I tell you leave that place, no need to cut his tongue. It will create chain of actions. Leave that place. If you can, if you have strength, strong logic, see, one big problem is they are logical, you guys are not logical. You guys are more experiential. That is why the whole world is always ruled by head, not by the heart. The whole world, there are only two people, who are juice, salt of the Earth, juice of the Earth and muddy water. Muddy water is always smellier, it influences lot of land, what to do? Their dirt and smell influences lot of area. But people who are juice, they are just quiet, enjoying, living by themself.

Participant: not audible

Swamiji: They are afraid to, because many of their vested interest will be shaken away.