“Participant: the common threat amongst all his people should be the…”

Participant: the common threat amongst all his people should be the attachment, if you take the attachment of Bhisma

Swamiji: Clutching, getting clutched, that’s the common threat

Participant: Bhisma was always for the kingdom and when it came to Dronacharya it was his son and similarly Karana for Duryodana because he has given the protection and similarly you know Dronacharya, Bhisma and karana

Swamiji: Understand, parental conditioning will always bother about property and the acharyas who gave you knowledge but did not give you enlightenment will always bother about disciples, means the next generation and the compassion, Karana will always bother about the friendliness. But you have to cross all these three to get enlightened. Dropping Bhisma means dropping all the properties, luxury, comfort, outer world. Dropping Drona means dropping all the next generation, you see that is where he was locked, see where these guys are locked just see. Bhisma was locked in the property and samrajya – kingdom, so your parental conditioning, you will not be able to drop if you know that you are going to inherit the property. How can you say no to them, only when you are courageous enough to drop the properties, the kingdom, you will be able to say no to him, the parental condition. What is Drona, where the Drona was caught, the next generation, the putresana. See putra does not mean just son, ideological son, disciples are also putresana only. So always this acharyas will have problem, see one small thing, if you want to find out whether you are caught with an acharya or enlightened master just go and tell him you are leaving, you are leaving him. If he suffers and wants to keep you under him, he is only a acharya. If he feels compassionate and he himself does not bother and he says if it is good for you otherwise its ok be happy where ever you are. If he is able to clearly relax, unclutched, understand he is the master. Putresana, person who is not, who is, always this acharyas will suffer if the disciples leave because the disciples are enriching their ego. Whose ego is not enriched by disciples is a master, whose ego stands on disciple is a acharya. Usually when people come and tell me that they are leaving, first I will tell, understand this all is a suffering so just for that I am asking, after that its ok, be blissful where ever you are, that’s all. And third day I won’t even remember them, I won’t even remember them, the people who live around me you guys know, people who have left have I even remembered their names? Now for telling I can recollect and remember and tell. Bhaktimayananada and all I never even remembered his name, years they lived around me when they left have you seen me remembering their names. Means my ego is not enriched by the disciples, by disciples. I don’t even remember them; now just to tell you guys I remember the names, remember the names. So if you want the acharya is caught in putresana means the next generation, so only if you are ready to say no to that you jump out of it. Then comes compassion, he will be caught; he will be clutched in friendliness. If you are compassionate you will be clutched in the friendliness. Friendliness is another one big problem, no, no, no; he is not become enlightened how can I become enlightened. He is not travelling with me how can I? No, there is no, the friendliness after certain limit after certain point it is a individual, path of loneliness, the path from lone, aloneness to aloneness. No wife, no husband, nobody can come with you; it is just you and you. Unclutching from that, Karanamoksha, liberation of Karana.

(5:10) Then comes the Duryodhana, ultimately the very ego, the very depression, stands up with all its vigour and. The beauty is your individual consciousness will not know where to kick your ego that is why you are suffering with your ego. Three day and three night fight was going on, only master knows where to kick the ego and he will kick exactly in that spot, in that space. Then the liberation happens.

Participant: Swamiji, a person living in normal world, how do they conquer these elements of maya?

Swamiji: See this normal world there is nothing like a normal world, separate world ma. It’s not a problem at all ma, understand this concept and assimilate at one point whatever is locking you even in normal life will drop, will suddenly give ways tak, tak, tak, will give way.

Participant: Swamiji, few statements. At the time of you said numbers 8 and until when the night came all the powers of the yuga. Until each yuga there was only one master, in the kali yuga there are several so called masters, acharyas and all that multiple of them. So that’s where......

Swamiji: I cannot say in each yuga there was only one master, no, only one or two masters biographies have been recorded and become popular, but I can’t say there was only one. Parasurama and Rama lived in same yuga both of them met with each other and Krishna meets with so many masters and Rama meets with Vasista, so I cannot say there was only one master. One has become hero but there was no, one master. It was not always one master, it was many masters and it will be many masters. One thing, where it clicks you, that’s all.

Participant: But if the putra, progeny is not to be there but if everybody becomes sanyas or if they not have the ends at that level then today the whole world and progeny would not have and also they say your

Swamiji: One more thing doctor, one more thing, please do not think God is dependent on you for the creation, he is not dependent surely on you for creation. That’s first thing, next thing, it’s not that everybody will become, will go to that steps doctor. Everybody will not go to the eleventh, twelfth day of the fight, you understand. There will be millions of people who will stop in the tenth day of fight, they will die or they will stop and they may not have life enough to go till the twelfth day of fight. So we don’t have to bother about that, whoever has got courage proceed further, that’s all.

Participant: how to give up friendliness, compassion?

Swamiji: compassion is alive just because you think the other person is reality. The other is not real as you think. See, the seer and seen, from seer the consciousness takes a jump continuously because it is not able to relax into the seer itself. That taking jump, that restlessness gives life to seen. Because you are not atma rama, the seer is not relaxed in the seer itself, it takes a jump and gives life to the seen and the jump between seer and seen and seer and seen and seer and seen is seeing. Seeing - the process, the person who stops this jump – triputiveda, by dropping the seen is renouncer – sanyasi. There is nothing to be seen, he takes away all his taste to see things. So the seen becomes dull and the jumping stops, he becomes enlightened through renouncing. The person whose seer is relaxed, he becomes enlightened, that is bhakti. The seer dissolves is bhakti, seen dissolves is jnana. But some way in this three one has to drop then the jump will stop, when the jump stops the process also stops. Seer, when the seer is not completely in bliss with the seer, he starts becoming restless and jumps and when he jumps he gives life to the seen, because he gives life to the seen the process of jumping becomes seeing. Whenever the seen loses its power it is renunciation, when you renounce the seen loses its power over you, so then there is no point to jump. When there is no place to jump the seer relaxes in seer, the seeing does not happen and seeing is not there, you are enlightened. When the seer drops in the seen, it’s the master-disciple, devotion to the existence, the seer dies, you are stuck with the seen. Again because you are stuck with the seen, there is no seer, the jump stops and the seeing stops, you are enlightened. Whether you are stuck with the seen or seer, get completely stuck, you are enlightened. And if you are jumping that is where the triputiveda is alive, that’s all is the whole drama. As long as the compassion is there means the jump between triputi is happening, the seer and the seen is jumping. For any reason the seer and seen jumping is going on, the seeing will be there, ignorance is there. Either, the seen has to drop or the seer has to drop, dropping the seen is Vedanta – renunciation, jnana. Dropping the seer is bhakti, devotion. Yes, any other question.

Paritcipant: how to differentiate between Drona and Sahadev?

Swamiji: Aha, how will you differentiate between Drona and Sahadeva? It’s a nice question. Drona can stand against you if you are not going to fulfil what he thinks as right but Sahadeva will stand for you even if you are against him because Duryodana comes to Sahadeva to fix a day to start the war for his success and Sahadeva clearly, dharmically gives the right date for Drona, ah for Duryodana. Any of you know that story? See Duryoudana, Sahadeva is supposed to be the master of astrology so Duryodana wants to know the date when to start the war, what is the right date to start the war for his success. He goes to Sahadeva and asks him, asks Sahadeva, Oh brother, I know you are a great astrologer, please give me the date. I should start the war on the right date so that I will be successful. Sahadeva says please come brother and he sees the astrology and gives the date, this coming amavasya day start the yudha and you will be successful and Krishna was totally shaken because his Sahadeva’s words will come true and the whole thing is now done, the whole plan of Krishna is now gone. Because Duryodana will start the war on amavasya and he will win the war, what to do. Now comes the Krishna with the drama, see Sunday is the amavasya, they have to start the war, the Saturday itself suddenly Krishna is sitting in the banks of water tank and giving tarpana. Usually tarpana is given only on amavasya. He has to give only on Sunday but Saturday itself Krishna is sitting and doing tarpana. Sun and the moon both of them got shaken, what is this? Only on amavasya day he has to give tarpana and he is giving tarpana one day earlier, what is going on? Both of them ran and came to Krishna, Krishna only tomorrow is amavasya, why are you giving tarpana today? Krishna said what is amavasya? Oh amavasya means sun and moon have to meet, now are you guys are not meeting? Yes, today is amavasya, over. So war started on pratima, pratima and they got defeated. Understand Sahadeva even if he knows you are going to play the other side, he will be honest and give you the instruction. I know for sure sometimes some disciples may drop and go against, but I don’t reject them. I see the potentiality that they can become enlightened, that is the reason I allow them in my fort, I allow them in my court and I continue to teach them. People ask me, sometimes my ashramites ask me, Swamiji after one year he ran away, don’t you know that he is going to run away, why did you train him? Why did you spend so much time with him? Why do you spend so much time on him? I tell them no, possibility, possibility is there. So even if I know he is going to play the other side, when he comes we have to be honest in operating, giving, offering, sharing, this is Sahadeva. But Drona will not do that; Drona will stand the other side. If he knows that you are going to be this side he will not bother to stand against you and play the drama. That’s the difference between Drona and Sahadeva. Deeper insights from Mahabharatha,huh. Kunti’s character, chalo let me answer no.

Ah what doctor. I think doctor are you convinced by the answer which I gave? All the people are not going to play the drama till the fourteenth day thing.

Participant: yes I got it Swamiji. The life span of each and every individual........

Swamiji: see life span, the people will not become matured, see people may not be in the body till they get matured to drop the family, these, that things and then go to the next step. So whoever has got the opportunity decide, don’t miss that’s all. Ah chalo come on doctor what’s.....

Participant: when Krishna comes to the court with this I mean like when he comes to the court and he is bargaining that because of doing the meddling with me what is. Only Bhisma, Bhisma was able to see the cosmic form of Krishna, Bhisma and Midura, these were the only ones who were able to see his real form, when Dronacharya was not able to even see when he showed his cosmic form so that means he was still obviously he was not enlightened. But is Bhisma and Midura were they enlightened?

Swamiji: No, but the parental conditioning has got some good qualities of keeping the tradition alive, so those things can have glimpse for themselves for some time, Satori. But even if they had satori they can’t have followed. Yes

Participant: Swamiji you said about eighteen days war, that’s the symmentical eighteen days. Some people maybe one year maybe one day

Swamiji: No, no, it is not eighteen days, the, it’s a eighteen steps, like a your the ego which can count up to eight connecting itself with eyes, that’s one day war. Connecting itself with the nose is a one day war. Like this going through all the ten karmendriyas, jnanendriyas and karmendriyas and not only that, this eight, one more thing, it has got that chittam, buddhi, mana, the parts of the mind, the ahankara, these eight again gathers, you see the this number eight has got eight part – chitta, buddhi, mana, ahankara, all this eight part, individual consciousness, your memory and all these things. This eight joining with one one sense, one, one sense, that one, one sense joining and fighting, coming for fight is one day war. Where you are going to get stuck, nothing, that’s all.

Participant: The question I have is that until you meet the masters where we were before we do not know in the pasts.

Swamiji: That is not a problem, actually once the master, when you meet a master and start the process only yudha itself starts because yudha itself is created by master, Krishna. Till then you will not even know what you, what is your worth and you are not even asking for it, you are living in forest, you are in ajnathavasa. Only master comes and tells you aree you are in ajnatha, you are in, you have lost your freedom, swarajasiddhi. You have not achieved your swarajya, you are not having your own rights, you are being excommunicated, you are cheated by the your negative thoughts. Till then you will not even know you have been sent to forest, you have been cheated in a very cunning way by your own. See the courage of depression is Shakuni cunningness. Courage of individual consciousness is Bheema, courage of individual consciousness is Bheema, courage of cunningness is Shakuni, courage of ego that is the cunningness. So you are not even aware that your ego, your cunningness has played game on you and kicked you out of your own property which is enlightenment and you are sitting in the vana and you are sitting in ajnathavasa. Losing, lost, you have lost even your idea that you own something, then comes master to remind you. He even goes to, even goes as a ambassador to the eleven crore thoughts, your negative thoughts, your ego. See you live in one corner, you be a, let us all live happily together. If ego accepts, yes alright, I will also live you also live, then ego becomes servant, ego becomes servant. But the ego is not ready to accept, then, only then master educates you, fools it is your property, don’t stop. War itself is created by Krishna, created by Krishna, till then whatever is going on is not a war, it is just fight ajnathavasa.

Participant: so the fact that we are with masters, we are in the process of enlightenment.

Swamiji: sure

Participant: It is bound to happen, it will happen

Swamiji: Yes, that’s all. It will happen, you are supposed to just listen to all the tactics which he gives continuously and execute it and you should find out Bhisma is standing in front, Drona is standing in front, Karana is standing in front and blast, you are done. Yes.

Participant: Did Mahabharatha really happen?

Swamiji: I can say in a way, there was a fact but something’s are added. There was a fact but something’s were added but now you can understand in this angle, it’ll become the whole thing is reality. Yes.

Participant: in this angle it like living Mahabharatha, like living Gita

Swamiji: That’s all. Living Mahabharatha. I don’t, I have not started speaking on this mytho, our great kavyas, kavyas of Mahabharatha and Ramayana. Uh, maybe I’ll give some continuous sessions on Ramayana and Mahabharatha later on, bringing the whole thing back to life. See the Guha helping Rama to cross the Sarayu River and becoming brother is the whole philosophy of enlightenment. Maybe later on we’ll explore.

Participant: maybe just that one hour we can leave

Swamiji: doctor I think if I start I will not be able to end, that’s why. If I have enough time I can tell you elaborately, step by step. See now I gave you a new insight into the gay ideology, person who said no to the parental conditioning is a gay. He is successful in certain steps towards freedom but not ultimate. He has to drop even saying no attitude, then he can face Drona. See it’s like a, father has to bring you up, mother has to bring you up till the age of seven with love and care and should handover you to the father. Father should bring you up from the age of seven to fourteen by giving you knowledge and intellect and hand you over to the master and move out. And master has to bring you up from fourteen to twenty one and make you enlightened and hand over you to God and move out. Whoever does not move out they’ll be moved out and they should be moved out, that’s all. That’s all is the Mahabharatha war, parental conditioning, dropping, then the master, he also should drop then compassion also should drop and become enlightenment. Yes doctor.

Participant: sorry, sorry I’m asking too many questions

Swamiji: No, no, you can ask. See we have time for question answer, means we have few more minutes

Participant: Swamiji we can postpone the trip till, the going up to 12 o clock if we want to continue. I’ll just inform them

Swamiji: No, no, no, no it’s ok. We will go and see and come back and.... yes

Participant: but one observation is all the pandavas, all the kauravas including all the acharyas, everybody seems to have been married with kids.

Swamiji: No, see that idea is totally different. I am not saying being married with kids is something wrong, see I’m not saying that at all but these guys married with kids but finally who stood. Even Krishna is married with kids, what will you say about that? So I’m not saying married with kids, you see that is totally different idea. So now what i am presenting is totally different idea, uh, it’s a totally different lifestyle. One more thing Krishna is married with kids I know but he never bothered about it, he never bothered to drop it, he never bothered to drop it. He was able to leave everything in dwaraka, straight away come and sit in a chariot as a charioteer for eighteen days and run the show, run the show. That is enlightenment. And one more thing, when he says, aree this eleven crore is standing in front of you has no power. He means that negative which has no power over you, unclutch and eight crore is standing behind you, they are power for you to attack this eleven crore. That is what the positive clutching and seeing. Just see sometime so that you will have the confidence and courage to unclutch from negativity. Third thing, both are not going to be alive in the end of the drama, for enlightenment both have to die. That is why this has been made to fight with that and dies, that is what the story says, the purpose of the incarnation of Krishna is to reduce the bubhara, to reduce the weight on your head, means the destroy the number of TPS – thoughts per second on your head. That is the purpose of the landing of Krishna on the planet earth.

Participant: can you tell us about Abhimanyu?

Swamiji: Abhimanyu can be like a, Abhimanyu can be placed as an immatured individual consciousness, the son of individual consciousness who did not have much maturity, just directly gets into the things and gada, gada, gada, gada does something without even bothering about aree what am I doing? Without the advice of an enlightened master when your individual consciousness enters into the drama of trying to conquer the negative thoughts becomes Abhimanyu, becomes Abhimanyu.

Participant: .................. like personality development Swamiji

Swamiji: Yes, maybe. Personality development and Abhimanyu is proper because he listen’s only the half. He knows only how to break and go inside, he doesn’t know how to come out. He has got only one initiation not the whole. You need not only initiation, the charioteer sitting in front of you and driving your whole chariot for enlightenment. Not just one initiation when you were sleeping. Ah, yes.

Participant: such a beautiful explanation of the great epic. I have two questions, one from the understanding point of view, the symbolism part of it like................... , material wealth and family.

Swamiji: it is not even material wealth or, see it is not even material wealth or anything maybe I can say unclutching the fear of losing the wealth, that can be right introduction, right interpretation. Unclutching from the fear of losing is enough, no need to renounce actually. Unclutching, no unclutching from the fear of losing is ok, that is enough. You don’t need to completely renounce. Doctor now three ......

Participant: such a beautiful way you call it mahakali imbibed in the psyche of the whole Hindu philosophy of the kartika ..

Swamiji: vedic tradition.

Participant: Where did the things go wrong where people followed

Swamiji: because, because a meaning did not, the right interpretation was not given to people and it was not used for inspiration, that’s the thing. That is one thing, let me answer this Kunti. See Kunti is a mother of individual consciousness, very innocent, very innocent and she is like a body on which individual consciousness can land but there is no other big role to play, there is no other big role to play, that’s all.

Participant: so this whole psyche of a country, how it got stuck on such a non-sensical meaning of it

Swamiji: I think the always this kavyas comes to life when a masters land on the planet earth otherwise everything is just skeleton. It is they who add flesh to the bones. Yes.

Participant: what about Draupadi?

Swamiji: ooh, Draupadi is a important role, Draupadi character now we have to unreal. It’s a, see I can say Draupadi is a maya, Draupadi is a maya who can bind you or liberate you. If she herself is wounded she can take vengeance and drive individual consciousness to liberate you. Till she herself is wounded she will only bind you, means the, your own idea or desire or greed and fear, till it gets depressed, till they them self get the blast they will bind you. When they get the blast depression of success happens, they themselves will drive you to become enlightened. Your home will bind you till it did not a, the home or you do not realise that it is not end. At one point your home realises neither that is end for you nor you are for it, then the same home drives you crazy to achieve enlightenment. Because everyday being there you don’t find any juice, you don’t find anything and it just says aai get lost, quickly get enlightened so that you also liberated I am also liberated. So Draupadi is a subtle character of maya, so she can be either binding or inspiring you to get enlightenment. She is the sister of enlightened master, Krishna. She can become a sister and drive individual consciousness to become enlightened or she could have even hidden the whole thing from enlightenment, anything is possible by Draupadi.

Participant: Gandhari?

Swamiji: Gandhari and all is like a epic characters, you can’t fix it with a enlightenment science. Only this main thread trend you can put it with the enlightenment science. Yes

Participant: So any particular significance of vastra haran in the whole enlightenment?

Swamiji: Ah, I can say that step is a depression of success. Your own negativity proves to yourself that it is not going to be useful. Your maya itself gets abused by your negativity. See your negative, depressive thoughts stops you even making money and wealth in the planet earth, even the outer world success is not happening by your negative thoughts. Then the outer world also gets aai you are not even allowing me to hold this fellow, let me take revenge on you. When the fight between the outer world success and your depression starts happening, the your seeking starts, then even the maya starts fighting for you. Because even outer world success is not happening, then why should this negative thoughts be alive, to be allowed on you? Chalo, when I can’t enjoy let no body enjoy the individual consciousness, maya decides. That’s vastra harana.

Participant: Do you say that based on enlightened science, based on what the anticipation on you said, vidhura, it is the possibility exists for anybody no matter what their background

Swamiji: See I can say Vidhura is a enlightened mystic who is enlightened by himself but can’t help anybody that is why he disappears.

Participant: by birth although he is, the potentiality exists for anybody

Swamiji: Potentiality exists for anybody but what I am saying Vidhura is a enlightened mystic, even Balarama is a enlightened mystic, so, but they can’t be useful for anybody that’s why both of them disappear from the war, both of them disappear from the war, they are not there.

Alright, so beautiful epic and beautiful story. So today where we are going? Ankhor Tam, Ankhor Tam is a beautiful temple, I read about the temple, is a bigger than Ankhor Wat. The stone used for construction and all is bigger than Ankhor Tam but too big, means like a broad, not concentrated like a, like this temple. So lot of beautiful things I saw in the...

Participant: Swamiji, nadis, nadi shastra and all you’ll talk.

Swamiji: Lemurian scrolls. See basically few scenes I downloaded. These guys, I think I told yesterday in the temple itself many things I was telling, the same thing maybe I can put it in few words. The basic stones they got it here itself and the majority of the carving work they have done in Bharat using the gay stones. There are three kinds of stone – male stone, female stone and gay stones. Gay stones are easy to carve so used the gay stones and did the carving and brought the whole thing by ship and few enlightened masters came here, created energy field and assembled the whole temple. And the temple which we went yesterday was supposed to be like a tomb of a king that is why Vishnu was given more importance. The tombs of the master is given, Shiva will be given more importance. So yesterday’s temple Vishnu was main deity but in the garbha mandir Shiva was also there, Shivalinga was also there but Vishnu was main deity because it was king’s Samadhi. But the, if the masters Samadhi then Shiva would have been given the top priority. That is why see in the Arunachala temple east facing, in the same garbha mandir east facing Shiva is there, west facing Vishnu is there and north facing Bhrama is there, south facing Guru, enlightened master is there – Dakshinamurthy. Even in Arunachala garbha mandir, that is the way it is there, so this temple also was built like that only. East facing Shivalinga, west facing Vishnu, north facing Bhrama and south facing Guru – Dakshinamurthy. We saw the Dakshinamurthy yesterday the carving na, it was south facing. So because this was king’s tomb, the west tower was developed into a big thing, west entrance became big entrance, main entrance. So maybe the other temples which we are going, if it was masters tomb it will have east entrance main and that will be the main entrance for the people to enter and worship. These are the few, maybe information’s I can add then the information guides gave. The guide was telling yesterday, I was asking tell something whatever you know. He says no, no, we want to listen from you. They learnt quite a bit, especially the deity’s names and mythological all those things, that’s a nice thing they are open. And I can say that whatever history they know as a fact they know we can ask from them then we can add the exact thing which happened and not only that, the, they can take us without missing every place. We will not know what all is there na, that they can do, that’s a good job. I think already Ahimsa has briefed them, don’t talk much try to learn. That is why those guys are, no, no, no, you tell Swamiji we will listen.

Participant: Even the person from the bus also who brought us from the airport itself, they said we are your tour guides but we know your Guru is there so we won’t be talking much. Your Guru will be telling us and we will also be listening to your Guru. Swamiji they know from last year. I said when I came, when I left

Swamiji: Oh that time itself Ahimsa has planned I will bring Swamiji here and she did it, it’s a wonderful thing. Give a good clap for, you see for Ahimsa you need to praise two thing. One for her great work and next for shutting Maheshwara up, for both you need to give a good clap. Alright, I think any else, we are done.