“Participant: “...Paramahamsa had cancer of throat.”

Participant: “...Paramahamsa had cancer of throat. Then Swami ….. also had cancer, Swami Chinmayananda also..”

SPH: Not only... I can give you a big list of cancer and enlightenment. I don’t know why.

Participant: Could you see any correlation

SPH: I tried to do some research, but I did not find any correlation, because there’s a huge list of people who... masters who left the body without cancer. (Swamiji laughing)😃 No, no, no, no, no, no, because I try to, you see, ahh, I myself a kind of person who constantly does this kind of researches and all these things. So, I am not able to come up with any clear logic or proof that cancer and enlightenment is some way connected. 😃

Participant: “Because this question … 90% diseases are psychosomatic. ….When these….way the spiritual masters how amazing. Then little bit somewhere that question comes - why they suffer?

SPH: One thing, that’s what I told you na. They have, they had pain, but no suffering. That’s the first thing. Second thing, you see it’s like dropping the body. You see, when you, ahh, Ramakrishna says very clearly, in 1886 January 1st he says: “Today I dropped the will to live, carry this body anymore.” Within eight months he left the body. See, when you drop the will to leave the body, live in the body, when you drop the body, the easiest disease is cancer. And straight away it attacks and takes away the body; that’s what I feel. Otherwise consciously I don’t see any connection between the ahh.. You see, cancer is related to Swadhisthana chakra. According to Patanjali cancer is related to Swadhisthana chakra. Swadhisthana is the survival instinct. Swadhisthana chakra, Spleen chakra is a survival instinct. So, when these masters relax from the survival instinct, naturally the ahh.. body is taken over by that disease and it disintegrates.

Participant: “This enlightened souls having cancer at the last moment is it not better explained by the theory of karma, the only difference being that, since they were the enlightened souls, they realise that this karma is there, this karma has to be suffered; I mean without suffering they have to be suffered, so that, that also pass through”

SPH: Do you want the social answer or honest answer? 😃 If you, if it just a social answer, if it is a public meeting, if you asked this question, I would have said, “Yes, yes, yes it must be” and left it. But I feel I can honestly speak, it’s a small group and... Hmm. Let Me... now I have to bring My experience into the scene. See, there are some things which can be proved by somebody else’s experience, there are some things which can be proved only by the personal experience. I personally feel and experienced, there is no karma for enlightened person. There is no karma. And there is no karma in front of Me. I could, I am very clearly able to see. The games which I play, the possibilities are there. If I am getting into the car and driving, the possibility for accident is always there. But I am very clear before itself, all the possibilities in front of Me. Just because My inner space is so vast, where all the possibilities can appear and disappear, there is no karma binding Me. You under, am I... Did I explain? I don’t know whether I...

Participant: “...by your own perception.

SPH: Maybe I can give you this one incident. Please be seated. Nisargadatta Maharaj, you heard of this Nisargadatta Maharaj? Great master, very great master. Somebody goes to him and asks him: “Bhagavan, ahhh enlightened beings do not have karma, then how are you able to talk to us?” He said: “I am not talking to you.” Then that guy says: “No, you are talking to me! Is it not a karma?” Then he says beautifully: “I am just there in my pure space. Because you want to see me talking, you are seeing me talking.” It’s little strong. “Because you want to see me talking, you see me talking.” See, it's like a..mmh… nothing gets recorded in Me what I am talking, and nothing is prepared; a pure inner space. Just what you are throwing, that waves and movements you are watching. You are witnessing.

I can say maybe put it in this way, there is no editing happening inside. There is no, you see, there is no interest to inspire you or there is no interest to convince you. To tell you honestly. You may be from morning... last two, three hours of my act, you may be thinking I am interested in inspiring you, or I am interested in convincing you. I have to tell the honest truth, I am not interested in convincing or inspiring. It is just the overflowing joy. My overflowing excitement, I come out of My room and sit in the car. The overflowing excitement for no reason, you are, something I am sharing. The same overflowing excitement for no reason, your question I am answering. It is just a overflowing excitement for no reason. If I am not sitting in this hall, if I am sitting in the ashram, I’ll be same way, just excited, sitting with brahmacharis, or chatting something and doing something. So it is just a overflowing excitement. If there is no, if there are no brahmacharis, I will be sitting with the trees in My room.

And same thing, there is no instinct or a interest to do anything particular, a intense excitement towards anything and everything. Intense excitement towards anything and everything, not particularly directed to one point, is what I call consciousness. So, you just see some part of Me reflecting to you.

Participant: ….of our preconceived notions and … background and even in case of Lord Mahavira we believe that when he attained the stage of enlightenment he still had karmas to pass through.”

SPH: Oh that, you see, when disciples write biography, they will write like that. Hmm. Ahh, and one more thing, you know. See, when disciples write biography, they have to make Guru God. The problem is, how I experience Myself as God and how he remembers Me as God is a big problem. He wants Me to have four hand and he wants Me to have... ahhh, do all kinds of magics and everything. But in My case, you see, even intuition is a lie. What is intuition, you know - purified intelligence is intuition. See, when you have the intuition, it’s not that against your intellect you will, you will have some decision, you will follow.

People ask Me: “Swamiji, don’t you have intuition to tell something, to do something, what should I do?” I tell them: “Exactly intuition means, you know, it’s not that according to your logical decision, your logic says, you have to go now from here, but intuition will suddenly say from the deep: “No, no, no, sit here itself.” It never happens in that way. Your very logic will be refined, purified to such level, what decision it takes itself will be intuition. So it is just a simple flowing, just a simple flowing.” But the disciple does not want that. He wants something extraordinary, he wants a aura around Me. He wants four hand. He wants that I should put my hand like this, some light will come out and that 80 year old lady will become 16 old girl. “And oh, what happened, your grace, your energy.” So he has to write the biography. You understand? He has to write the biography, that is what has happened.

In Ramakrishnas case also, when they wrote the biography, they started saying it’s a... He took somebody’s karma and healed and all those things. Ramakrishna himself answers in Kathamrutha, there’s a beautiful book called Ramakrishna Kathamrutha. In that he says: “Fools, don’t write like this and all, don’t tell like that; ahh it’s nobody’s karma, I don’t have any karma.”

Vivekanada says beautifully: “If you try to present me as a God you imagined, I will come as a ghost and catch your throat.” He says in 😃 In one of his letter he writes: “Do not build temple for me, and do not project me as a God, as YOU WANT. Present me experience God as I experienced. Do not present me as a God as you want, then I’ll come and catch your throat.” He says very clearly: “I will come as a ghost and catch your throat.” So, this gap only is the problem. You see, problem is this gap.

Let Me describe in this way, this one story. You heard this Paramahamsa story, that the swans, they lay the egg, and the egg before even reaches the ground it hatches and the swan flies back, it just stays there itself. It’s a story from Ramakrishna the Paramahamsa. I read from Ramakrishna so... that’s all ahhh gospel. Hmm gospel he describes you see.

That swan is called Paramahamsa, enlightened beings and suddenly the reflection of that swan fell on one tank and a small river and in some lake. When the... in a lake when the reflection came, happened, all the fishes in that lake started jumping around that swan. “Oh ohh, there is a... some big fish has come.” Some fishes have started telling: “Oh, one big white fish has come.” And they all started jumping. Some other fishes say: “ No, no, no, it is not a fish, it is something else.” And some other fishes have started telling: “No, no, no, it is not fish, not anything else, it’s a bird.” And all of them started jumping around and playing around that swan.

One fish told: “Heyy, stop! Only I will allow you to go near that fish.” And he became the chief disciple. And 😃, some other fishes have started telling: “No, no, no, wait, wait, wait, let us ahhh, have a small small houses here around, and live around this swan. It looks so pretty.” And ashram is created. And... this is the way the things happen. And suddenly one day, see, when the reflection falls on the ahhh lake which is in Bharat, all the Bharatn fishes gather and ashram gets created. If the same reflection falls on in some other country, in some other lake, all those country fishes gather and create a ashram. They become, the settlement happens. So all these things are happening.

One important thing, some time some fishes jump on that swan and think: “Oh, this swan is so loving, caring, it is always hugging, so much of showering.” Some fishes jump out of the swan and say: “No, no, no, no, this swan is not like that, it is kicking me out. It’s not loving and caring as it is shown. It is a, it’s filled with hatred and violence.” Some fishes write a reminiscence: “Oh, this a loving, caring swan.” Some fishes write a reminiscence: “No, no, it's a ahhh filled with hatred and violence.” All these things are happening. One important thing, swan is not aware of any of these things. The original swan, he is not aware of any of these dramas. Some fishes jump this way, some jump that way.

One more thing, all the biographies written by fishes are all about reflection, not about the swan; about the reflection, not about the swan. One ahh important thing, the swan, the reflection happens for only one reason: The swan expects, suddenly some fish may think: “No, it is neither fish, nor swan, nothing. It is something else beyond reflecting.” And the fish may look up and recognise the original swan. That is the only reason the swan is flying over the waters. It is letting the reflections to happen on the water. Otherwise the swan is not even aware of the whole drama goes on. Suddenly, the swan moves out and the reflection is not there, it’s all over. The fishes which were playing, now what they will do? “Oh god, we missed.”

I always tell people, “Instead of playing around the reflection, look at the swan. Catch the swan” Till, you see, when the reflection is not there, you don’t know which direction to look up. Reflection is like living master, master in the body. Swan is the original master, the being. When the body is there for the master, he can easily show where to look. When you see the reflection, use the time and energy only to look up and catch the swan.

If people are just playing around, some doing this, that things, finally what they will do, when the reflection disappeared, they may build a monument, they will bring some stones here and there, all the fishes will pick up some stones, bring it and assemble it and say: “Oh, this is the spot, when the reflection, when the, when we saw the reflection of the swan. In those days we were all playing whole night with the swan. There was a moon, there was a purnima, in that beautiful scene the swan was there, we were all jumping around.” They can write reminiscences and stories and build monuments, that's all.

And instead of trying to create reminiscences, stories, histories, monuments, intelligent few fishes look up and catch the swan. That’s all. 😃 The whole drama I have solidified in one story. This is the one story, how the spiritual organisations are created, how the biographies are written, how the movements happen, how the religions evolve, how the whole thing evolves and lives. That’s all. 😃

Participant: “ …. layman's language what is unclutching? And how does one unclutch?”

SPH: Yes, this is a beautiful word. Let Me answer this, straight answer. When you sit, thought will come naturally, some thought will come. The moment you see the thoughts are, some thoughts are coming, without giving meaning to it. You can, you will give meaning only if you connect with your past. Am I right? Without giving meaning to it, just remember to unclutch and see what happens. The moment you remember, that let me unclutch from this thought, means let me not give meaning to it, for few seconds there will be a small silent gap. The moment you are aware that there is a silence, it will become one more thought. Then unclutch from that thought. You understand? Then again, there will be two second, just few second gap only. Then there will be one more thought: “I am in silence, or I am unclutching.” Unclutch from that thought. Just that gap or the silence should become longer and longer. Over.

And what will happen after that, don’t have to bother now. And naturally mind will say…. after few minutes mind will go away somewhere, wander around, the moment you remember mind has gone around, then, unclutch then, that time unclutch. No need to be, no need to have guilt or no need to bother ‘Mind has wandered.’ Nothing. The moment you remember - unclutch. That’s all.

No, no, no, you see, when you, when I say, when I, when I use the word banish the thought, stop the thought, you will start suppressing.

Participant: Distract the mind to stop?

SPH: No, no need to distract. Just remember, ‘let me unclutch. Let me not encourage this thought, let me not empower this thought’, that’s all. I am not saying empower something else. I am not saying encourage something else. Just do not encourage what is happening now.

You may say: “How can it be possible?” Just remembrance of this unclutching. Then any other thought comes “No, no, no, unclutching is one more thought”, unclutch from that too. In the initial level it will be very gross, very solid, you may have to, like a fight, you may have to utter that word ‘unclutching’ like a mantra. It may look like a mantra. But just few seconds, few moments, suddenly you will see it becomes subtle process. When I talk, it has to be gross process, because I am verbally communicating. When you do, it will not be verbally this strong solid process, this will become a subtle process.

Participant: “Swamiji, many of us you know have experienced that this what you are telling, of course we did not use that word but we have experienced that this needs a very strenuous mental exercise and that is not very easy for the common human beings.”

SPH: Can I answer this question? Let Me… I am telling you, I am really honest. Please understand, I am responsible for what I am talking, I am really honest. This is, “this needs a strenuous mental exercise” is an idea put into your head. See, two thing. You always lived with numbers. Numbers is not life. In your mind, you reduced your whole life into numbers. So if you have… ahhh playing with numbers is a strenuous exercise. Now, this technique also you are trying to make it like a number. How many times I have to do to make it as life?

You are trying to make again, make numbers out of this technique. That is why the idea ‘strenuous’ comes in the scene. The idea ‘strenuous’ ‘mental exercise’ is nothing but a number game. You understand? I tried one thousand time, I failed, that is why it is strenuous. The number game itself is a one more mental game, you understand? So, without trying only, your mind says you will believe the words of your mind, it’s a strenuous mental game. Just try, even when the mind says it is a strenuous mental game, unclutch from it. One more thought, just a simple game, your mind is playing. And try to play with it. Suddenly you will see, this very courage puts your mind completely into silence.

Participant: Swamiji one….question. Why at all will thoughts arise? is it because of manufacturing defect...

SPH: If it is, if it is a manufacturing defect, we will put the blame on God. So, I can’t say manufacturing defect. The possibility, you see, the mind can be called as a manufacturing defect or can be called as possibility to exchange. 😃 You understand? The manufacturing defect you can blame the manufacturer or the possibility for exchange is there. So, let us look in the angle of possibility for exchange, to get the updated software. 😃 Maybe to constantly to remind you, you are not complete, the mind is put inside the system. Otherwise you may not raise your frequency. You may not continuously be aware that you need to expand. You need to experience something higher.