“Devotee: Scientists say that about fourteen billion years ago, the…”

Devotee: Scientists say that about fourteen billion years ago, the Universe started with the Big Bang. Then galaxies, stars, then solar system. About five billion years ago, earth came into existence. After that, various life forms gradually evolved. First may be plants. Then simple animals, complex animals, chimpanzee and then man. So with this processive evolution, how do You relate Consciousness? Has Consciousness also been evolving along with the physical form? And if yes, then what exactly is the process of transformation of this consciousness from lower level to higher level? Is this Enlightenment just the next step of the same process of evolution?

Swamiji: Two thing: One, Consciousness is not evolving. Second thing, when the system which radiates Consciousness is evolving, the expression becomes much better. Please understand. This glass may not reflect the sun but the mirror will reflect the sun. In mirror, you will see better expression of sun. That does not mean sun is changing. Consciousness is like a sun. That itself does not change but the mirror, the glass can become mirror. The glass becoming mirror is what you call evolution. That is what is happening. That is what is happening. You see, in the glass you won’t see a better reflection of the sun but in the mirror you will see. It is not because of sun. It is because of the mirror changing.

Same way, your body is changing. The idea from which the Consciousness is getting expressed, whether your body or mind, that is evolving. That is why, you see better and better expressions. I can say, after the human being or the... after the human mind happened, the ultimate evolution is Enlightenment. Ultimate expression of the sun is Enlightenment. The ultimate expression of that Consciousness is Enlightenment. The possibility for that ultimate expression is there for the human mind and body. Human brain is wired for Enlightenment. Human brain is wired to experience God. So if you experience that, you achieved the peak, the ultimate. which you can experience.

One more thing I want to tell you. Enlightenment is ultimate but not final. The ultimate is happening every moment. If ultimate happens and ends, that’s what we call final. Here, it is ultimate but not final. Ultimate happens but does not stop. It is happening. Ultimate continuously happening is what we call Enlightenment. A little difficult to grasp by the intellect. Maybe you can understand with this example. Continuously Big Bang happening. A continuously Big bang happening is what I call Enlightenment!

When you live Enlightenment, this moment, you will unclutch. Next moment, you will unclutch from the idea you are unclutching. The next moment you will unclutch from the idea that you are unclutching from the idea of unclutching means continuously, you see, unclutching is the ultimate. You unclutching this moment is ultimate but that does not mean it is the final. You will be continuously unclutching. Continuously you will be alive. Continuously you will be fresh. Continuously you will be experiencing new, new, new inner space, but which is ultimate.

You see, if I say continuously you will experience, you will start thinking as if it is growing. No, it’s not growing. What you can experience maximum, you will have it this moment and that will be continuously happening. You always have an idea of graph. Either if it goes to peak, it has to come to valley, or if it is growing, growing, growing, it is not peak. Am I right? That graph cannot grasp Enlightenment. That graph is only for the outer world. It is wrong. Peak, the ultimate, continuously happening. You can’t even call it as a straight line.

(answering a devotee’s question) No, it is not fixed. That’s what I am saying.

Devotee: No, like You are saying this mind-body is expression that Consciousness and once we are able to reflect it completely in a perfect manner, then that becomes Enlightenment.

Swamiji: Yes

Devotee: This means Consciousness itself has no role in this process of evolution or whatever You may call it,...

Swamiji: No, I don’t say ‘no role.’ I don’t say no role. See, Consciousness is the base. I don’t say no role. I can say it does not have active role.

Devotee: Okay, this mind-body is functioning on its own, totally? It is like machine which is working on its own?

Swamiji: Two thing: as long as you identify yourself with the body and mind, you will see it has no role. Consciousness has no role and your experiences also will be like that only. It will not have any role. When you relax and become little subtle, suddenly you will start thinking it has a role-passive role and you will see it has a passive role. If you settle down completely you will understand, Consciousness is the only thing playing all roles! You will believe it and that will be the truth. See, the truth, at least let Me tell you from My experience. I cannot say the ultimate truth is truth for you.

Ramakrishna says the whole world is illusion. Vivekananda goes and hits his head on the wall and says, “No, I am having pain. There is a bleeding. How can you say it is illusion?” But Ramakrishna says when He puts His hand, His hand is just moving through the wall. It is a very funny incident. Any of you read his life? If you read the Ramskrishna’s life, you will see this and not only that, when He plays with that murthi, that Kali’s murthi, she is responding. but Vivekananda is playing. She is not responding. It is like a depth of experience.

Please understand, in the dream state, the dream is completely true for you. In the waking state, this waking state is completely true for you. When you are awakened, there is a state. That will be true for you. From that state only, I can say, Consciousness only plays all roles. So all I can say, please come to My shore and see what I am saying. From your shore, from that side, what you are saying “Does Consciousness play any role?”, I only have to say, “No, may not be. It is playing passive role.” I will have to only use the other words but to tell you the ultimate truth, the exact truth, Consciousness is the only thing playing all roles, all the roles.

When the mirror is becoming more and more powerful, capable of reflecting, it starts seeing the truth. It is like a glass and next mirror reflecting. The third, not only reflecting, starts seeing the Source based on the reflection. There are some mirrors, intelligent mirrors. Not only it reflects the sun, it starts seeing the Source, from where this light ray is coming, where is the Source. So different level. Maybe in the level from which you are questioning, where the question is rising, from that level I can say, Consciousness is playing passive role but that is not ultimate truth. Maybe it is a fact but not truth.

Trying to use the truth in the day-to-day life without experiencing it creates rituals. By faking it, you can never make it. That is the important truth. See, sometime, people say that, ‘fake it and make it.’ No, it does not happen. At least in the inner space. Inner space, only if you make it, it can work. Only by experience it can happen. In the outer world, by faking, you can make. You see, if it is related to ahankar or mamakar, you can fake it and make it but if it is related to truth, by faking it, you can’t make it.

Devotee: Energy based healing sciences, would You please throw some light on it. We would like to know more about it.

Swamiji: When you completely unclutch, you radiate so much of awareness and energy and intelligence, Ma! See, the energy cannot be produced or it is not like something you create. It is continuously happening in every being. If you take a stand that you are a body, you will be on matter. You will be in a matter plane, plane of a physical matter and you will be living like that only. Your desires will be very physical, gross. If you think you are mind, you will live in the mental plane. Your desires, fears, everything will be related to mind like name and fame desire, fear of losing the identity-these kind of desires. If you are based on the physical plane, your desires and fears, everything will be related to that level like, you will have the fears of basic, like death fear or the desires also will be related to body.

In the mental layer, the desires and fear-both will be subtle. In the spiritual level, being level, there won’t be any desire or fear. You will be radiating the energy continuously. In which plane you are, your existence, your presence will radiate that energy. So when somebody is established in the spiritual plane deeply, the spiritual zone, there won’t be any need for any sankalpa to do healing. Many people ask Me, “Swamji, how do You do healing? Do You use any mantra, do You use any technique?” I tell them, “No. All I do is just relax.” Just simple relaxation, unclutching: simple unclutching and relaxing.

Of course, because the Enlightenment has happened, there is no need for Me to do consciously unclutching. Just the very being, it is happening. Just the simple unclutching-that radiates the energy. That’s all! People feel the side effect of this energy as a physical healing or mental healing or any other benefits. But the core truth is what I spoke to you. The same thing. Unclutching is the same thing. There is no other separate technique or method. To tell you honestly I don’t believe in any other techniques or methods. Those things all good thing to create a feel-good-feeling in the initial inspiration. Initial inspiration. This unclutching, I can say, the straight, strong method. Just a simple remembrance. Whenever a thought rises in you, do not give meaning to it. Unclutch! Just remember the word unclutching.

Maybe in the initial level, morning half an hour or everyday if you sit for half an hour or ten minutes, it will give you a clarity. More and more clarity. Then after sometime, you don’t need to sit separately. Whole day, whether you are sitting, or talking or in the office or driving or watching or doing whatever. Whatever you may be doing, that itself can be part of your...unclutching will be part of your life and just...you see, you will not have a person to command you. You will not have a person to judge you inside. That’s all is Living Enlightenment. Now, you have somebody who commands you and person who commands you will naturally judge you. Person who commands you, somebody is commanding you inside- You do it and he is judging you continuously. That person will not be there. That is what is Living Enlightenment.

Devotee: Does diseases visit us because of our prarabdha and our past karmas? So if we are going to be healing ourselves in this birth by unclutching as Your Grace said, then is it that we are writing off that prarabdha?

Swamiji: You see, karma itself is nothing but energylessness. Please understand. It is like a photograph. See, if a scene is exposed to a film, that light and darkness gets impressed. If you expose that same film to the sun, what will happen? The whole thing will become blank means the full sun can’t be captured. Full energy can’t have karma. The lightlessness is darkness. Energylessness is karma. Wherever there is less energy, karma comes to play. So bringing energy does not mean you are...for example, when...people ask Me also, “Swamiji, do You suffer our karmas?” I tell them, “No. When sun comes, the lotus blooms by itself and the darkness disappears. Does sun eat the darkness? No! Just by the very presence that disappears.

So the very presence of an intense... unclutching, I can say that is the right word. The very presence of a person who is completely unclutched, heals. There is no such thing as I take the karma and burn. There is no interaction. There is no bargain. There is no business happens. Here there is no giving and taking. Just the very quality or the presence of the being does the job. That’s all! The disease comes from the inner space. Disease comes from outer space. There are two things.

As far as Ramana Maharshi concerned, he used the body like how I use this kerchief and put it here. Same way, Ramana Maharshi used the body. He saw the purpose is over and He dropped it. When the cup falls from the hand and breaks, it gets disintegrated and goes back to the nature. Same way, he dropped the cup-his body and it disintegrated and went back to the nature. Naturally there should be some disease to disintegrate. That is what has happened. I don’t think He suffered. See, Ramana...surely the quality of Ramana Maharshi’s cancer, the quality of ordinary person’s cancer is different. So you can’t call it as disease.

It is like a just body….see, when you don’t have the desire or the need to live in the body, body can be just dropped. He dropped the body. So I can’t say that this is the same disease which ordinary people suffer. Totally, the quality itself is different. The person itself is different because Bhagavan Himself healed so many people. He has healed so many people. There is no reason why He should suffer. He has just dropped the body. From outside when we see, we see it as a ...the body getting cancer and disintegrating and falling into it. That’s all!

Same way, Ramakrishna. How many cancers he healed! And somebody asked Ramakrishna, “Ramakrishna, why don’t you heal your throat cancer? Why don’t you just put your awareness on the throat for two minutes? It will be healed.” And Ramakrishna says, “Fool! I have already given My mind to Devi and it is not there with Me. How can I concentrate on My throat?” He says. He uses the very word ‘fool.’ Says in Bengali “Bhoka” and “I have given away My mind. How can I bring it back and put it on My throat?”

Devotee: Process of healing through meditation one person heals the other one. that does take place, that does happen?

Swamiji: You see, using the power of the mind, you can do that game. But in My healing science, the healing science which I am practising and spreading, does not need to use your mind. You see, the Reiki, Pranic healing and all, you can use some symbols. Some symbol, some colour. It does help. No doubt about it but in that, the karma exchange happens. The karma exchange happens.

Devotee: Healer gets the karma.

Swamiji: Healer gets the karma. So surely I think that is...I can say, the worst mistake. Worst mistake. See, anything done using the mind-both person will suffer. The person who got healed also has to...naturally he will get back the karma, disease after that because the mental set up is not changed, you see. See, the symptom is healed but the mental set up which creates the symptom is the same. But in the case of the Master’s presence which is not using the mind...See, I am not using the mind. It is the presence. So naturally beyond his mind, healing will happen. His mind also will be healed means the mental set up which creates the symptom also will be handled, will be touched, will be healed.

But usually when the simple healers like using emblem, symbols and colours, when they heal, they can heal only the symptoms. So naturally the problem is one: the person will have the disease back again because he will create it again. Have the disease means not the same disease. He will create the disease again. Second thing: the person who healed, he will also have to suffer the karma.

See, this game happens in a fourth layer. I can say, emotional level. So it’s very dangerous. I personally feel that it will hinder the spiritual growth of a person who is healing and the person who gets healed. It is better to sit with the person who does not have mind or who is Enlightened even if it takes little time. The problem is, those healers will give a immediate result like a steroid. In My case, I can’t give a steroid effect. It will take little time. Maybe some week or some, few days but this healing does a big job, permanent job. Of course, if I start talking little more deeply, it will be more like a promoting. I don’t want to do that job. Okay, we will…

Devotee: You told that You are here to all of us has to realize, common person’s life has to be raised

Swamiji: There is no common person. Persons, that’s all.

Devotee:XXXX(not clear)

Swamiji: In their case, there is a truth. You understand! Please understand. I am here to make you realise you are God. No doubt about it but in the case of Ramana Maharshi, He realised He is God. Surely the other persons have not realised. Now if you realise you are god like Ramana Maharshi, naturally your disease and the other person’s disease will be different. That’s all. You understand? That...where I use that word, that Ramana Maharshi and other things, that is a realised and unrealised. here, I am saying I am here to make you realise. That is true. No doubt about it.

Devotee: Swamiji, Paramahansa Yogananda died of old age?

Swamiji: See, Paramahamsa Yogananda did not have any disease. He just like that left the body. If you have read that Paramahamsa Yogananda’s biography, He just said very clearly. I think in half an hour, I will be relaxing. Please get ready. and He was attending a meeting. He was attending a meeting. He was honoured by the Ambassador...Bharatn Ambassador, some Sen. B.G.Sen or something. He was honoured and immediately He looked at the watch and said, “I think half an hour more, I will be done.” And He just said and all the people were sitting around Him. His disciples were sitting. He lifted the hand, did namaskar and left the body. That is the way He left.

You see, to tell you honestly, you can’t judge those people’s activity, their activities! but I can be surely, I can surely say one thing. If Bhagavan wants, He could have healed His cancer. That much I can be sure. That I can be sure. Other than that, you can’t judge their activities. And one more thing, in the cosmic wave, these are too minor for these Masters. How you leave the body and all those things are just too minor. To tell you honestly, what really matters for Me you know, how many people have become unclutched by Me, that’s all. Nothing else matters. Not these centers and ashrams.

People tell Me, “Oh! Thousand centres.” Centre means what? In the devotees house, they are running. What is there for Me? And somebody comes and tells Me, “Swamiji, I believe You.” I tell them, “Arey! By believing Me, you talk as if you have done a favour to Me.” It’s not. You are doing a favour to YOU, not to Me. “No, no, in my house I run Your centre.” I tell them, “It’s not that you are doing a favour to Me. You are doing some favour to you.” So nothing matters. There is nothing matters. How many people are unclutched-that’s all matters! See, when you walk on the planet earth in unclutched way, planet earth is blessed. Just planet earth is blessed. So how many more people are going to bless the planet earth by walking on it in unclutched way is the only thing. Nothing else!