UK Internet Radio UntangledFM.com Interviews Paramahamsa Nithyananda

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AL: UntangledFM, this is Reverend Alison Levesley and this evening I have one of the most amazing guests. I am so honoured to have his holiness Paramahamsa Nithyananda joining me. He is a world teacher in the science of Living Enlightenment, as spiritual head of the worlds’ oldest apex body of Hinduism, revered as a Living Incarnation of Superconsciousness by millions worldwide. And what Nithyananda’s mission creates within the world is quite remarkable. It’s – ehm – feed thousands of people every single day. Nine thousand ordained spiritual healers healing twenty thousand people globally every day. Yoga meditation and spiritual counselling centres and camps touching 15 million people in 150 countries. Every single morning there’s live online satsang where you can actually listen in with live streaming video conferences and this is viewed in thousands of places in over 30 countries every single day. There’s weekly medical camps offering conventional and alternative medical care, oral health, eye surgeries, prosthetics, including free consultation, medicines and follow ups. And I could go on and on about the schools and the education and all the other wonderful things that happen but what I’m going to do is I’m going to welcome, I’m going to – do you mind if I call you swamiji for the interview?

PN: Yes, yes

AL: Is that ok for you?

PN: Please go ahead

AL Welcome to the show, welcome to Divine Conversations …

PN: Namaste, Namaste, thank you for hosting me

AL: Namaste. Oh my absolute pleasure and honour

PN: You can call me swamiji

AL: Swamiji

PN: Yes

AL: Thank you very much. Last year I was with you at Inner Awakening which was the most amazing experience and I’m looking forward to coming back as well very soon.

PN: Yes

AL: So we’re gonna hear a little bit more in a while about Inner Awakening. But you’re called an Avatar or Incarnation, and how is that different from other spiritual teachers ’cause there’s many throughout the world, all enlightened people? And when also did you first discover that you’re an Avatar?

PN: Yes, yes. See, I cannot call myself as an incarnation, the Spiritual Masters, the enlightened beings have to declare. In my life, three great enlightened masters, in a very young age discovered that I am an incarnation, and they declared it to the world.

So enlightened being is a person; spiritual teachers or enlightened beings are people who are human beings having divine experience. Incarnation is a divine being having human experience. There is a difference between the both. A person who never experienced powerlessness from the birth in his life, who is always established in the Superconsciousness from the birth, in his life, is called as incarnation.

Even in the case of Dalai Lama, all the senior enlightened beings, they recognised him to be the incarnation of his previous Dalai Lama, his predecessor. Same way, in my case also, in my home town there were three enlightened beings – all of them have recognised and declared when I was eleven that I’m an incarnation.

Yes

AL: And so when you’re … when this happens, what was that like for you to …

PN: Oh

AL: Did you already have an experience that you were an incarnation?

PN: Yes. I can tell you one thing. I experienced myself as a light embodied in this 6-feet frame. I have never associated myself with this body, or any of the powerless moments in the life, or any of the patterns. I never developed any pattern in my life, mental pattern which tortures ourself and others. I never entertained any root pattern in my life

Maybe I can say, from the beginning I remember myself as a pure light, and living as light, continuing to radiate that powerfulness of the light

AL: Wow! And I guess that’s really … hearing that is … and I know, I’ve seen you, I’ve experienced you – I know you energy, I know what you give. But when I think about it I find, you know it’s like … Gosh, how does that work? How does that happen? So I try not to think about these things too much.

Buts that’s it isn’t it, you know, for myself is human that goes through of these experiences and all of these patterns. It’s very hard to, to understand that actually you don’t have to. And that’s what’s the difference, isn’t it.

And …

PN: Excuse me, can you, can you repeat the last line?

AL: Yes, I was, I was saying, it’s very difficult sometimes for myself as a human being that goes through all these patterns. That I know that I was working with you last year and …

PN: [laughs]

AL: Yes

PN: I tell you, whenever any incarnations happen on the Planet Earth, this same game repeats. It’s very difficult for a normal man [laughs]

AL: I’m guessing so, it’s very difficult for a normal person to, to, to understand that somebody can live without all of those things. Which is quite remarkable and quite amazing. And …

So, one of the things that I’m aware of is that you’ve had a lot of negative publicity hurled at you a few years ago. And I’m aware that there’s still bits of it that were coming to light last year.

How are you able to emerge from it in such a big way, ‘cause I know that you’ve got, you know, been given the titles of various leading Hindu religious bodies. And also Watkins giving you recognition. How have you been able to stay so cheerful? Because that’s one thing I know about you, you laugh so much. And still continue to move forward.

PN: See, one of the secret of my success is, this negative publicity, the people who were doing the negative publicity and persecuting me: they were able to make the whole world believe I’m a bad guy, but they were not able to make me believe I’m a bad guy, that’s all. See we lose in the life only when we believe we are bad people. When we started hating ourself. That is where the real loss … that is where the real losing happens.

In the war, we always win as long as nobody is able to convince us we are bad people. Nobody is able to make us to hate ourself. The moment we start hating ourself, the moment we are convinced we are bad people, we lost the war. In my case, I’m very clear I’m living a very integrated authentic responsible life and enriching the world. So when they were not able to make me believe I’m a bad guy, they failed utterly and bitterly. [laughs]

AL: And I guess that’s the same for … it’s a similar thing isn’t it, for us as well, is that if we don’t see something or we don’t believe something, then, then we can continue to move through it. Ehm – but I know that you went through a very, very difficult time with that. And, and what I experienced of you was, if you last … you last through it even though it must have been hard to prove in some way.

So I know that you’ve initiated many people into Sannyas, and you’ve called the youth to consider the Sannyas. So can you explain first of all what they are, and why people should consider taking them.

PN: See, Sannyas is the life keeping enlightenment as the first priority. Whoever decides enlightenment as their first priority in the life, who wants to dedicate living this life of integrity, authenticity, responsibility, and especially enriching the world. Who dedicate their life fulltime for enriching the world, they chose this lifestyle of Sannyas.

I tell you this lifestyle of Sannyas is nothing but lifestyle of completion. Established in completion.

So naturally when you start living from the space of completion, you may tend to move towards Sannyas. I have seen in my life whoever moves towards a very powerful space of completion, automatically move toward Sannyas. It is like a very beautiful transformation. A very beautiful transition into the transformed space. A smooth transition happens automatically.

So I may feel, I can tell you: Sannyas is more like incompletions dropping you than you dropping anything out of incompletion.

When you are in the space of completion, incompletions and the negative patterns dropping you is Sannyas. Sannyas is renouncing what you don’t have but with which you are suffering continuously. Sannyas is living with what you have and celebrating the space of completion.

Next.

AL: And are these, are the Sannyas – are there lots of Sannyas or – how many are there?

PN: I can say that there are at least handful of Sannyasis I have. See, there are many people who have been trained and initiated; there are many under training; and all these put together – I can say at least few hundreds.

AL: Right, okay. And how long would it take to move through them, or is it a case of when …

PN: It is not the question of time. Sometime people move through and reach the space of that completion and Sannyas within one year, sometime people take even seven, eight years. I can say between one year to ten year – it depends on the individual. But nobody has taken more than ten years. So I can say maximum ten years and minimum one year.

Yes

AL: Okay, thank you, thank you. And one of the things that has been a question, has been a question for myself as well…

PN: Yes

AL: … so it’s really nice to be given the opportunity to ask. About the common perception being spiritual means having to be celibate or living the poor life, losing interest in outer world successes and doing things in life. Can you please tell us what, what it really means to be spiritual?

PN: See whether it’s a chastity or a poverty, it should happen out of the space of completion. Even if it is a right decision, if it is taken out of wrong reason it doesn’t lead you to Ultimate. Let me explain the space of completion and I’ll tell you a small story.

Three mental patients, mad people, all three of them think they have become all right. They want to go home from a mental asylum. They go to the doctor in charge and request “We have become all right, please send us back to our house. We want to go back to the house, resume the normal life.” Doctor says “All right, tomorrow morning all three of you come to the office, 10 o’clock. I will test you guys then I’ll decide whether you can leave the asylum and go back to your house and continue the normal life.” So all three of them, next day, gathered. Doctor shows empty swimming pool; swimming pool without water, empty pool, and asked the first guy to jump. The guy jumps and breaks his leg.

He calls second guy, asks him to jump. That guy jumps and breaks his hands. He calls the third guy and asks “You jump”. Third guy said “No I won’t jump”. And doctor was very happy that this guy has become normal. When the paper work was getting done for the third guy to leave the mental asylum and go to his house, doctor was casually asking “May I know the reason why you did not jump into that pool?” The guy says “you don’t know – I don’t know swimming!”

AL: [laughs]

PN: Understand, maybe the right decision of not jumping he took. But from the wrong reason.

AL: Yes

PN: So, whether it is a celibacy or poverty, chastity or poverty, if it comes out of wrong reason it is not Sannyas. It is not Spiritual Life.

Anything has to come out of right reason. Your whole body should feel complete about your gender incompletions. The root patterns of incompletions you carry in you, your whole biomemory should celebrate completion. So it does not need the other person in your life. Your very aloneness, your very individual self enjoys the space of completion.

Let me define completion. Completion is: not having any incomplete powerless patterns in you, which makes you think and do the same powerless acts again and again. Root pattern is the pattern which makes you feel powerless and makes you do the same type of actions again and again is root pattern. And living without any root pattern is completion. So out of completion, any decision you take, whether it is chastity or poverty, that should be the right spiritual path, spiritual life style. Basically, living without any hangover or heavy feeling of the past in the present is completion. Not having the hangover or heavy feeling of the past in the present is completion.

So if you are complete and live celibate life out of completion – great. If you are living in poverty out of completion – great. But both should be done out of completion.

Thank you

AL: Thank you. And if somebody is complete, and choses a life of celibacy, are there benefits to the human beings in choosing that?

PN: I can say when somebody is complete and choses the life of celibacy, he can constantly activate his inner potential energy we call in Hinduism: Kundalini Shakti.

Any relationship constantly breeds some form of other incompletions. See all relationships continuously makes you experience some incompletions. When you chose celibacy and no relationships, you continue to establish yourself in the space of completion. Continuously living out of completion awakens your Kundalini Shakti, you experience the feeling of powerfulness and feeling of abundance. I can say, this feeling of Kundalini Shakti, experiencing the inner potential energy, the Kundalini Shakti, makes you have extraordinary mystical powers. In Sanskrit we call eight great powers ashtama siddhis.

When you attended the Inner Awakening you will have seen, people experiencing Kundalini Awakening and people experiencing miraculous healings. So many things you’d have seen in front of your eyes like Materialisation, Teleportation. All these powers happened in me because of the Kundalini Awakening and being established in the vows of celibacy.

AL: I certainly did experience people’s Kundalini awakening and some of the … yeah, definitely, watching it in front of me, absolutely, and the healing – like you say, the miraculous healing I was definitely experiencing and seeing that within people.

When you … you mentioned about root patterns. Are the root patterns just from this life-time? Or are they from previous life times as well?

PN: I can say, usually the root patterns which are very active in your life, in this birth, are formed in this life only. Very rarely we bring strong root patterns from the past, like a very big karma. Maybe Hitler will carry from his past. So, person who kills thousands, person who murders thousands, tortures thousands – only those kind of people carry root patterns from one life to another life. Otherwise all normal human beings, all the people who live the middle class morals, the middle class values, they suffer only the root patterns which are created in this birth. So, usually I can say, for all the listeners, that we all suffer from the root patterns we created in this birth.

Thank you